View Full Version : Involuntary religious conversions
23rd April 2009, 09:30 AM
These are all symptoms of a failing system and a govt reacting to, instead of planning events. Also it indicates that the Govt has lost control over the govt service.
1. PM's Dept: Conversion case will be resolved
22 April 2009
PETALING JAYA: The controversial case of three children who were converted
to Islam by their father in Ipoh recently would be resolved as soon as
possible, the Prime Minister's Department said.
Spokesman Johan Mohd Hulaimi said: "As the matter involves court
proceedings, the individuals involved and organisations concerned have been
advised to remain calm and to refrain from any public comment in order to
give ample space and opportunity for the matter to be resolved amicably."
The issue was first brought to the Cabinet's attention on April 15.
2. Religious conversion: Rulers' help sought
S Pathmawathy | Apr 22, 09 6:45pm
An embattled Hindu wife whose three children were converted to Islam by her
estranged husband is seeking the intervention of the Conference of Malay
Rulers to solve the matter.
She would be seeking the rulers' help through the Malaysian Consultative
Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism and Taoism (MCCBCHST)
which said today that it would approach the rulers to help solve the
predicament of the mother, M Indira Ghandi.
Council president A Vaithilingam said the council would be writing to the
Keeper of the Rulers' Seal requesting that the Conference of Malay Rulers
intervene in this particular case.
"The rulers are responsible for the religion of Islam in their respective
states and the king is responsible for the country.
23rd April 2009, 03:22 PM
Don't be too happy about this.
Over the past 52 years, UMNO has been constantly pushing the envelope to reduce the space of the minorities, in order to safeguard their hold on power. When the people make too much noise, they lighten up a bit and then they wait for the next opportunity to push again. It never stops.
To see the picture, observe over a period of decades and it will be obvious. This is the boiling frog strategy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog) and is part of the Ruling Class's psychological warfare against the masses.
Never let your guard down!
Government rules on children’s conversion
KUALA LUMPUR, April 23 — The government moved today to soothe uneasiness over Islamic conversion of minors when it decided that children should be raised in the faith of their parents while they were married even if one spouse becomes a Muslim.
24th April 2009, 08:50 PM
UMNO must be closely monitored to make sure they don't backtrack. At the end of the day, it is simpler to just sack UMNO and be done with it. It is very tiresome to guard a monkey all the time.
Friday, April 24, 2009
Translating Policy Into Practice
The media reports that the cabinet has decided that children of marriages where one spouse subsequently embraces Islam would remain in the faith that the parents had agreed on at the time of marriage. The cabinet has also appeared to decide that the civil courts are to dissolve such marriages.
These decisions are welcome ones. They indicate willingness on the part of the administration to deal with issues that have for some time now been studiously avoided, a state of affairs that had prompted the establishment of the coalition of NGOs calling itself “Article 11” and its “Equal Protection For All” campaign in 2006.
2nd May 2009, 01:08 PM
These problems were created by a megalomaniacal PM who tried to use creeping Islamisation to increase his and UMNO's power, compounded by a stupid Attorney General who only wanted to suck up to the PM and didn't think things through. Originally, we had a secular Constitution. By messing about with it and embedding Syariah law into the system, it has created a legal nightmare. The damage will take a few generations to undo.
A Cabinet directive is all it takes to get the judiciary to start hopping up and down. Goes to show how independent they are.
Najib will not have the gonads to bite the bullet and amend all the legislation to sort this problem once and for all.
Testing the limits on changes to conversion laws
KUALA LUMPUR, May 2 — The Court of Appeal’s decision to refer the case involving the custody and conversion of the sons of S. Shamala and Muhamad Ridzwan (Dr Jeyaganesh C. Mogarajah) to the Federal Court last Tuesday has given rise to some interesting issues.
Chiefly, it is going to be one of the biggest tests for the government as well as the judiciary system after the Cabinet made a courageous decision that children of divorced parents should be raised in the religion of the time of their marriage should one of them later convert to another religion.
The Cabinet’s landmark decision two weeks ago is thus set to be tested by the highest court of the land if the current laws and enactments are not amended to provide a clear interpretation on matters related to such conversion cases, according to those in the legal circle.
2nd May 2009, 06:28 PM
This problem arose partly because of the Muslim organisation's greed to increase their ranks through conversion and ignore basic justice.
In the Indira case for example, the couple were married as Hindus and produced 3 children. If one party becomes a Muslim and the other refuses, it has to lead to a divorce and custody of the children has to be sorted out. For such a situation, if one party refuses to convert, then the couple should dissolve their marriage first, custody of the children decided by the court. Then and only then can the spouse who wishes to convert to Islam, be allowed to do so. If the Muslim organisations were to practise this procedure, all these problems would not have arisen.
Bottom line: Greed of the Islam institutions. Misuse of the conversion procedures by one spouse to gain an unfair advantage over the other spouse and evade his/her family responsibilities.
Also I wish these damn politicians will stick their noses out of a basic humanitarian issue and not to try to make political capital out of it. People are suffering because of the stupidity of these so-called leaders.
Pakatan partners split over conversion issue
By Melissa Loovi
KUALA LUMPUR, May 2 — Pakatan Rakyat (PR) parties are split along religious lines over the controversy sparked by the recent Cabinet decision on Muslim conversions.
The government’s decision to amend laws if necessary to ensure the underage children of a non-Muslim couple is brought up in the common faith of the parents even when one parent converts to Islam has been slammed by PAS and other religious groups, including those aligned with Umno.
3rd May 2009, 02:39 PM
The MCA are a bunch of hypocrites. Where were they when UMNO passed these laws that created this mess in the first place? They didn't say a word about the potential problems that could arise. Now they are trying to be heroes.
Conversion row: MCA ticks off the Lims
Athi Veeranggan | May 2, 09 7:29pm
A MCA leader fired a salvo at DAP’s father-and-son team for failing to criticise Islamic ally PAS over the cabinet policy to ban parents from secretly converting children in a case that has strained race relations.
MCA vice-president Liow Tiong Lai said both DAP supremo Lim Kit Siang and his son, DAP secretary-general Guan Eng, appeared to have nothing to say about PAS information chief Mahfuz Omar’s criticism of the cabinet’s common religion ruling.
and Lim Kit Siang's rebuttal. (http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/21301/84/)
4th May 2009, 03:52 AM
These MCA dogs shall be wiped out in the next elections. Playing with fire trying to instigate the DAP against PAS over a religious issue.
Sunday May 3, 2009
State stand on religion ruling, DAP told
GEORGE TOWN: The DAP must clearly state its stand on the open criticism by PAS attacking the Cabinet’s recent decision that minors follow the common religion of their parents at the time of marriage when one spouse opts to convert.
MCA spokesman and central committee member Lee Wei Kiat questioned why DAP and PKR had remained silent about the strong opposition by PAS to the Cabinet’s decision.
“The fact that Pakatan Rakyat parties did not hold a common stand indicates their fragility as a united team,” he said.
4th May 2009, 04:22 AM
Over the years, UMNO has surreptitiously tried to reduce the religious space of the non-Muslims in order to promote their political agenda and to entrench their grip on power. The current mess is the result. This problem cannot be solved until we get rid of UMNO and go back to basics.
Rule no. 1: Let people practise their religions and live their lives in peace. Politicians and religious leaders should stay out.
Pakatan stands with mother in religious conversion flap
Posted by admin
Sunday, 03 May 2009 22:07
By Debra Chong (The Malaysian Insider)
KUALA LUMPUR, May 3 – Pakatan Rakyat (PR) today gave their backing to a High Court decision which granted interim custody of three children to Indira Gandhi, who is fighting her estranged husband over his new faith.
Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim, the opposition leader, broke his silence today on the religious conversion issue brought on by a recent cabinet decision which controversially decreed that children should be brought up in the faith of the parents even after one partner converts to Islam.
Speaking to reporters after chairing a meeting with other PR leaders, he said the alliance plans to set up a committee to scrutinise religious disputes.
He noted, however, that the cabinet had failed to consult religious and social leaders as well as legal experts.
3rd May 2010, 07:27 PM
UMNO to the victims: Sorry. By-election coming. Wait until people forget.
Federal Court delays hearing controversial conversion case
By Debra Chong
PUTRAJAYA, May 3 — The Federal Court here today put off hearing a case on the controversial conversion of two young children to Islam, after the father challenged the practicality of proceedings in the absence of the mother, who has left Malaysia.
A five-man panel of judges, led by Chief Justice Tun Zaki Azmi, made the decision this morning in the bitter tussle between S. Shamala and her estranged Indian-Muslim husband, Dr Muhammad Ridzwan Mogarajah, after he objected to the hearing.
His objection came after noting an outstanding High Court order for her to return their two children, Saktiwaran and Theivaswaran, now aged 11 and nine respectively, to Malaysia.
“I think the issues are not so easy. It’s quite complicated. We would like to read through all the cases and understand all laws properly,” Zaki said in open court.
He added that he would deliver a decision on the preliminary objection after a careful study of the points raised, in about two weeks.
Dr Muhammad Ridwan’s lawyer, Muralee Menon, had last week filed to bar Shamala from being heard at the Federal Court, arguing that she must first settle an outstanding charge for allegedly having acted in contempt of court by ignoring an order to return the children to the country.
But Shamala’s lawyer, Datuk Cyrus Das, countered that she wants a safeguard before agreeing to return.
Shamala, 38, who is believed to be in Australia, had married Dr Muhammad Ridwan, 42, in 1998 when he was still a Hindu and was known as Jeyaganesh C. Mogarajah.
Dr Muhammad Ridwan, an anaesthetist, embraced Islam four years later. He registered the two toddlers under his new-found religion within days of his own conversion.
The conflict between Shamala and Dr Muhammad Ridwan has grabbed national attention due to the sensitive subject of religion in Muslim-majority Malaysia, which also practises a two-court system: civil and Syariah.
“The significance is as to whether or not in Malaysia, under the Federal Constitution, one parent can convert the religion of the child of the marriage to another religion without the consent of the other parent,” said Das.
Das added that the question was being raised in court for the first time and would set the benchmark for other outstanding disputes, including the equally high-profile case of M. Indira Gandhi, a Hindu mother who has made similar demands in the custody of her three children.
The Ipoh High Court had awarded her full custody of her three children aged between 13 and two, who had been converted to Islam in April last year by her estranged husband, K. Patmanathan (now known as Mohd Riduan Abdullah), without her knowledge or consent but has postponed delivering a final judgment on the case pending the Federal Court’s ruling over the Shamala-Dr Muhammad Ridwan case.
The court disputes over which parent has the right to decide the religious status of children under the age of 18 continues to widen the divide between the Muslim and non-Muslim communities.
A Cabinet committee on inter-religious understanding and harmony had been set up earlier this year under the Najib administration to address such conflicts after a spate of attacks on various places of worship nationwide.
However, the future of the committee is currently uncertain as talks among religious leaders have been called off after several quarters questioned its possible influence on government decisions. TheMalaysiaInsider.... (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/62015-federal-court-delays-hearing-controversial-conversion-case)
4th May 2010, 06:43 PM
All religions does not encourage seperations as your side and my side,but persist with the Truth that there is ONLY one,within which seperation is not possible.
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