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Thread: BERSIH & SPR: EC deputy chief booed in debate with Ambiga

   
   
       
  1. #1
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    BERSIH & SPR: EC deputy chief booed in debate with Ambiga

    We cannot have ex-civil servants or people seen to be beholden to the Ruling Party to run such an important institution. That clown was so arrogant, talking down to the audience all the time. He deserved to be booed. Next he tried to behave like a wimp, pleading that the SPR had no power and all power laid with the Govt. Simply said, the SPR should be sacked. The Govt was so panicky that they have a few truckloads of Police guarding the event.

    What are they thinking?



    EC deputy chief booed in debate with Ambiga


    Kuek Ser Kuang Keng
    Jul 26, 11
    3:14pm
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    Election Commission (EC) deputy chairperson Wan Ahmad Wan Omar today faced a hostile crowd in a debate with Bersih 2.0 chairperson Ambiga Sreenevasan.

    He was booed a number of times, forcing him to plead with the audience to give him a hearing in the event organised by Kumpulan Karangkraf, a media organisation which publishes Malay language daily Sinar Harian and a score of popular magazines.

    Wan Ahmad (left) also insisted that the EC is just a “management body” which does not have the enforcement powers to tackle the abuses raised by various quarters relating to the electoral system and processes.

    He then kicked the ball to the Attorney-General's Chambers regarding amendments to the election laws, stressing that it is a natural advantage for the ruling government to decide on the laws to be passed and amended, and the EC has no say in this aspect.




    “Anybody who wants to push reform which touches on the fundamental policy of the government must approach the right person.”

    The moderator, Wan Saiful Wan Jan from think-tank Ideas, then asked whether Wan Ahmad is suggesting that the problem lies with the government and not the EC, followed by a round of cheering and applause from the audience.


    Not answering the question specifically, Wan Ahmad replied that the current government, elected by a majority of the people, certainly have a stronger say in law amendment.

    “If you are elected, you will do the same thing,” he answered to another round of boos.

    “To push for reform, we need to work together, don't treat the EC as an enemy.”



    'Don't treat the EC as an enemy'

    In response, Ambiga (right) rebutted that it was the EC that had adopted a hostile stand against the electoral reform coalition.



    “I think you treat us as an enemy... It is wrong to say that 'we won't talk to you because the opposition is with you'... You sound like the government,” she said to the applause of the crowd.

    She also lambasted the EC, which she claimed has been given a certain degree of enforcement power under the federal constitution, for not taking pro-active action in changing the laws.

    Annoyed by the constant interruption from the floor, Wan Ahmad criticised them for refusing to open up their mind, being irrational, ignorant about election laws and even “sitting under the coconut shell”.

    The audience responded by shouting “no power” almost every time Wan Ahmad spoke.

    The irritated EC deputy chairperson then said "BN did not hentam (attack) the EC", inviting another round of boos and jeers.

    "How are political parties, namely PAS, PKR and DAP, different from BN coalition parties? The difference is in their approach. BN also criticises us like you do but not in the media.

    "They discuss rationally but you use the media to stab us. The EC cannot just keep quiet," he responded, sparking an uproar from the floor.



    Wan Saiful (right), who commented that Wan Ahmad's "partisan language" had agitated the audience, had to repeatedly call for calm, but it was in vain.

    “Let's stop the heckling,” he said, adding that the situation was turning into a rowdy “primary school” classroom.

    However, Ambiga, at one point, commended Wan Ahmad's courage to face the critics.

    “Wan Ahmad is a brave man sitting here. The whole EC should be here to back him but they only sent him,” she said, prompting the audience to give a round of applause to the EC's number two.

    When quizzed that many people do not see EC as a credible institution, Wan Ahmad argued that the view is just limited to the audience in the forum but the majority of the people still trust the commission.

    Ambiga herself, however, faced questions levelled at her over the rally on July 9 which took place, with at least two members of the audience demanding whether she would continue with her "confrontational" methods.

    One challenged Ambiga "from lawyer to lawyer" on her leadership role on July and whether she would organise more "illegal rallies".

    A third questioned the Bersih 2.0 chief over the prominent space taken up by opposition party leaders in her civil society-led coalition.

    The three-hour panel discussion, 'What's next after July 9?', also saw the participation of UKM professor Shamsul Amri Baharuddin (left).



    During the forum, a commotion broke out when a Malay lawyer, while criticising Bersih 2.0's decision to call an illegal rally, made a remark that “the Malays have accepted the Chinese and Indians as citizens”.

    The remark angered a few Indians who stood up and shouted at the lawyer. However, the situation calmed down soon after the ushers interfered.

    Forum ends early on order of 'higher authority'

    The organiser ended the forum 15 minutes earlier than planned, saying that it was due to the order of a “higher authority”.

    Many speculated that the order came from the police, who had been monitoring the forum, but the organiser later clarified that it was due to praying time and the “higher authority” referred to was God.



    Before the commencement of the forum, police were guarding the entrance and banners that read "T-shirts with Bersih and Patriot logos are prohibited" were put up.


    ---------- Post added at 01:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------



    Ambiga challenges EC to set up reform committee

    Kuek Ser Kuang Keng
    Jul 26, 11
    7:47pm
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    During a heated public forum today, Bersih 2.0 chairperson Ambiga Sreenevasan challenged the Election Commission (EC) to form a committee comprising of representatives from all political parties and NGOs to look into electoral reform and come out with a proposal.



    “Maybe they will have three months to come out with a proposal on how to reform,” Ambiga (left) said to a round of cheering and applause from the floor during a forum with EC deputy chairperson Wan Ahmad Wan Omar in Shah Alam today.

    The two-and-a-half-hour forum, titled 'What's next after July 9', was organised by Kumpulan Karangkraf, a media organisation that publishes the Malay language daily Sinar Harian and a score of popular magazines.

    The 600-strong audience was obviously annoyed by various statements made by Wan Ahmad and responded with boos and heckling throughout the forum.

    Although the moderator Wan Saiful Wan Jan in a bid to defuse the heightening tension, said it was not necessary for Wan Ahmad to answer the challenge, the latter insisted.

    He said the EC is always open to suggestion from political parties.

    Later, during the press conference called after the forum, Wan Ahmad further said that the commission will discuss the proposal.

    “We will continue our agenda to meet with political parties. It is our responsibility to receive responses and thoughts from all quarters,” he said.

    During the forum, Ambiga also requested Wan Ahmad to reveal the proposed amendments submitted by the commission to the government on elections and relevant laws.

    We will fight with you, Ambiga tells EC

    “The EC should disclose what are the amendments. We will support and fight with you,” she said.

    However, Wan Ahmad (right) responded that the EC needs to observe the laws including the Official Secret Act which prohibits the dissemination of certain information.



    Admin: This is the typical Bodoh-sombong language of the UMNO War Machine. Recognize them as our enemies who play a central role in suppressing the Rakyat.

    “When we say cannot, you should understand,” he said.
    During the press conference, Wan Ahmad refused to confirm whether the amendments forwarded to the government include the eight demands raised by Bersih 2.0.

    “I cannot answer specifically but the EC did not keep quiet. Don't assume that the EC did not talk or tell the story, or did nothing,

    “No, we studied and we made proposals. We have a legal unit which discussed with the Attorney-General's Chamber on issues that we will submit to them.”
    In another related development, Ambiga revealed that the Bersih 2.0 memorandum which listed all the eight demands, had been submitted to the palace 10 days ago.

    Bersih 2.0 was supposed to submit the memorandum to Agung on July 9 but was blocked by the police.
    py

  2. #2
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    Ambiga grills Wan Ahmad in Round 2

    Kuek Ser Kuang Keng
    Jul 29, 11
    3:39pm
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    Election Commission (EC) deputy chairperson Wan Ahmad Wan Omar reiterated that the EC is just a "management body" under the law to manage elections, rather than an enforcement agency.



    "We are guided by the Attorney-General's Office. The laws given to us are management laws," he said.

    He was speaking today at a forum 'The Election Laws, Election Commission and Electoral Reform' organised by the Association for the Promotion of Human Rights (Proham).

    Delivering the opening address at the forum, Wan Ahmad said that issues relating to money politics, vote-buying and dirty politics are under the purview of the Malaysia Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC).

    "EC can be called as a respondent or witness in court, but never in the history of the country has the EC taken a person to court over corruption," he said.

    On the EC enforcement teams formed during election campaigns, Wan Ahmad said their role is merely to monitor posters put up during the campaign.



    "What they (political parties) say during ceramah is handled by the police, according to the Police Act. It is the responsibility of the police to monitor the ceramah."

    The forum is being held at the Dream Centre in Section 13, Petaling Jaya, this afternoon, in a much-anticipated second round of sparring between Wan Ahmad and Bersih 2.0 chairperson Ambiga Sreenevasan.

    The discussion will focus on whether the EC has adequate powers to act independently and the legal gaps empowering it to discharge its duties.

    Ambiga crossed swords with Wan Ahmad earlier at a discussion on Tuesday in Shah Alam organised by Kumpulan Karangkraf, the media group that publishes Malay language daily Sinar Harian and a score of popular magazines.

    That talk titled 'What's next after July 9?' saw a lively debate between Ambiga and Wan Ahmad, both of whom were cheered and jeered a boisterous, 600-strong audience.

    However, the forum today, dubbed as a rematch between the two protaganists, appeared to be a rather tame affair.

    'Untrue EC powerless'

    Responding to Wan Ahmad, Ambiga as the second speaker cited section 27E of the Election Offences Act to prove that the EC has actually broader powers than it conceives.



    According to Ambiga, the section empowers the EC enforcement team during the campaign to "ensure that written laws relating to election are being complied with".

    She argued that the EC also has the power, under the current laws, to call other authorities to assist the commission in carrying out its duties.

    Therefore, although the EC has no prosecution powers, it has the responsibility to lodge police reports or request other authorities to take action, when faced with cases of irregularities.

    The former Bar Council president also quizzed Wan Ahmad on the issue of postal votes for Malaysians overseas, who are being denied a chance to vote.

    "From the feedback we received, it is impossible for them to go to the Malaysian embassies to vote," said Ambiga.

    She reminded Wan Ahmad that 50,000 to 200,000 Sarawakians in the peninsula were disenfranchised during the state election in April because they did not qualify as postal voters.

    Automatic registration 'doable'

    While on the subject, Ambiga also requested Wan Ahmad to explain whether the members of the territorial army (Wataniah), that the government has suggested to form in every parliamentary constituency nationwide, will be registered as postal voters.



    On the issue of automatic registration, one of the Bersih 2.0 demands, Ambiga dismissed the EC's excuse that it would force people to vote, and that it would lead to a low voter turnout rate.

    She argued that if the people are automatically registered as voters when they reach 21 years of age, they still have a choice whether to vote or not.

    As for the problem of lower turnout, Ambiga countered that the outcome of automatic registration would result in the opposite, as it overcomes people's laziness in getting themselves registered under the current system.

    She added automatic registration is highly doable if the National Registration Department (NRD) database, that is linked to the EC, is clean and has high integrity.

    'Electoral defects do not favour any one party'

    On the other hand, senior lawyer Muhammad Shafee Abdullah - the third speaker in the panel discussion - said the defects in the election laws, if any, favour any one party.



    Shafee (left), who has taken up over 70 election petitions in the past, added that in his experience, the majority of the issue raised in courts are not related to the concerns raised by Bersih.

    “Whether it is a problem with the ballot papers, as it was in case I handled in Terengganu or the issue of postal votes, I have witnessed it myself that the postal votes - in Sarawak - were for the opposition,” he argued.

    It is no true, stressed Shafee, that the election processes are in favour of the ruling BN government.

    However, he complained that most judges who hear election petitions are not interested in pursuing the “defects” in the election laws in detail so that lawmakers could be alerted on the need for changes.

    “They resolve cases as though it is a mathematical equation. We could do with judges who are more alert on issues, (and then maybe) we wouldn't have the trouble of outside forces making an issue out of it,” he noted.


    ---------- Post added at 09:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ----------

    When you deal with idiots, you don't talk to them. You sack them if they don't listen!

    The issue is not the civil service mindset. The issue is where is their financial interest. If it is in their interest to favour the Ruling Party, they will do it and cook up all sorts of excuses to justify why they cannot do it.


    No way we can go against the system, says EC

    Kuek Ser Kuang Keng
    Jul 29, 11
    7:30pm
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    Conceding that electoral reforms lie heavily on the political will of the BN government, the Election Commission (EC) however refused to use en bloc resignation as a way to pressure the ruling party to accept its reform proposals.

    You are asking too much. You've got to be reasonable here. We are working within the system,” said EC deputy chairperson Wan Ahmad Wan Omar (left) during a public forum at Petaling Jaya today.

    He was responding to the challenge of the Bar Council's Human Rights Committee chairman Andrew Khoo which demanded all the commissioners to resign if their proposals were rejected by the government.

    His reply was met with a loud “no” from some 300 members of public who attended the forum entitled 'The Election Laws, Election Commission and Electoral Reform' organised by the Association for the Promotion of Human Rights (Proham).

    “If you put a former judge in the EC, maybe he can push for whatever reforms. But with the current system, he needs to work within the system,” Wan Ahmad said.



    Like the electoral reform forum held on Tuesday, in which Wan Ahmad was booed and heckled by a hostile crowd, the role and power of the EC in ensuring clean and fair elections was again hotly debated in today's forum.

    The EC number two reiterated that his commission had submitted various proposals to the government but whether they will be translated into laws will still depend on the government's policy.

    “Please understand this is the system and we can have no way to go against the system.

    “This is the system in Malaysia... the attorney-general will draft the bill only when they get the signal from the government,” he stressed.

    'We don't have seats in Parliament'

    Comparing the EC in Australia, which was given a seat in the Parliament to present its bills and views, Wan Ahmad said that it is the minister who tables the bills in Malaysia.

    “We don't have seats in Parliament to debate our proposal. Definitely they (government) won't allow it because this is our system.”



    His statement did not go down well with the crowd including Proham executive committee member KC Vohrah (right), who argued that the law amendment process should be the other way round.

    The former judge, who once served in the AG's Chambers, said that it should be the EC that drafts the bill and lobbies the AG's Chambers to accept it.

    “When I was in the (AG's) Chambers, they (government agency) came and argued, and sometimes we agreed with them,” he said.

    Bersih 2.0 chairperson Ambiga Sreenevasan further pointed out that the federal constitution allows the election commissioners to enjoy the same status as a federal court judge.

    “They are in a special position... but they don't believe it themselves. That's the frustration we have,” she said.

    Ambiga explained that it was the frustration and disappointment with the EC's passiveness, coupled with its inaction on the many cases of irregularities occurred during the Sarawak state election, that prompted Bersih 2.0 to march on July 9.

    “We don't have the luxury of time. The 13th general election is not far off,” she added.



    Even the moderator of the forum, Ramon Navaratnam (left), another Proham executive committee member, commented that the 'civil-servant mindset' of the election commissioners is one of the factors behind the EC's conservativeness.

    “I think we must realise when you have former civil servants (appointed as election commissioners), most of them after 30 years in the civil service, tend not to displease the government of the day,” said Navaratnam, who is also a former civil servant.

    Therefore he suggested that prominent individuals not from the civil service should be appointed as election commissioners.

    All the seven current election commissioners appointed by the Agong under the advice of the prime minister are former senior civil servants.
    py

  3. #3
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    Saturday, 30 July 2011 01:43
    Finally EC budges a little: May extend campaign period but only by a bit

    Written by Malaysia Chronicle

    At last, the Election Commission finally agreed to concede some ground to Bersih, the free and fair elections watchdog body. It said it was looking “very seriously” into Bersih’s call for a longer campaign period during elections.

    But EC deputy chairman Wan Ahmad Wan Omar said any extension of the campaign period would likely not meet the 21-day minimum demanded by the election watchdog.

    “Definitely … we will consider that because that is within our power. The Constitution already says (the campaign period shall be) not shorter than seven days.

    “It may not be 21 days but definitely ... it’s going to be a reasonable period of time,” he said at a forum organised by the Association for the Promotion of Human Rights (Proham) here today.

    Wan Ahmad said the EC had to take into account the views of the police, who are tasked with enforcing election law from the start of campaigning right up to polling day.

    He said the police were opposed to any campaign period extension as “they cannot work 24 hours a day for 21 days”, triggering jeers from the 150-strong crowd.

    This prompted moderator and Proham committee member Tan Sri Ramon Navaratnam to point out that Wan Ahmad was merely conveying the objections raised by the police and ask that the audience allow him to speak.

    Wan Ahmad said the EC agreed with the government’s position that the current campaign period of eight to ten days was sufficient as Malaysians had access to “sophisticated” communications technology and did not need three weeks to understand a party’s policies.

    Bersih chairman Datuk Ambiga Sreenevasan, however, countered that a longer campaign period was necessary for overseas votes to be counted and for voters to get to know the candidates, not parties.

    “We want to know what the candidate is about. For crying out loud, look at some of the candidates that we’ve come up with,” she said.

    “We may know your party’s policies but it’s everyone’s entitlement to know what the candidate is about. That’s why you need the campaign period to be lengthened.”
    py

  4. #4
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    Saturday, 30 July 2011 09:46

    EC is not telling the truth: It can make changes without BN approval

    Written by Maclean Patrick, Malaysia Chronicle



    16 days after Bersih 2.0 and finally the Election Commission meets Ambiga Sreenevasen on a public stage to discuss election reforms. Yet, all is not well with the Election Commission as more questions have been raise in the aftermath of its lacklustre answers.

    EC deputy chairman Wan Ahmad Wan Omar absolved himself and his colleagues of any responsibility towards electoral reforms amid boos and jeers during a public dialogue with Bersih chairman Ambiga Sreevenasan, stressing that there was “nothing wrong” with the EC.

    “The EC is not an enforcement agency; it is only a management body for elections. The best we can do is to propose relevant laws to the Attorney-General’s Chambers.

    “But ultimately it is the government of the day, which obtained majority votes, which has the final say. If the government decides that voting age is 21 years old, whatever proposal we send to the A-G’s Chambers can never go to Parliament,” he said at a public forum titled What next after July 9.

    A lie of a statement

    This is a rather funny statement from the EC deputy chairman, as the manager for elections in Malaysia, the EC is provisioned to make rules as stated in Article 113 (5) of the Federal Constitution. This provision within the Federal Constitution was pointed out by the Bersih chairperson to the EC deputy chairman.

    Rules of conduct for elections are well within the boundaries of the EC since these are the rules that go into effect during an election. There is no need for such rules to pass through the AG chambers as long as these rules uphold and stay within the context of federal law.

    Thus among other things, the use of indelible ink, a period of 21 days for campaigning and equal access to main-stream media are all measures that the EC can decide on, without having to refer to the AG chambers.

    The only time such rules should be referred to the AG chambers is if there is a possibility a rule can contradict a federal law. Even then, if it does contradict a federal law, the EC does have the responsibility to stand by its decision or decide on an alternative.

    It is the responsibility of the EC to uphold its role in ensuring that elections are conducted fairly and properly in Malaysia. Appointments are by the Agong and members to the EC must not have any other affiliation whether to political parties or to business entities.

    This means they have to ensure that they are neutral and unbiased. If they are unable to be neutral or believe that they cannot play an impartial role as Wan Ahmad himself suggested, then they should immediately resign or be in gross disobedience to the King.

    Cheating starts in the EC database itself

    Instead, the EC has turned a deaf ear to allegations of phantom voters. When cornered with proof of such voters, the EC states that it is powerless to remove them from the voter listings. To remove a deceased person from the roll, a death certificate needs to be produced. Such technicalities have uncovered some rather funny instances of voters reaching more than 100 years old, still being eligible to vote.

    Then there is the case of multiple voters residing under one address. The EC is powerless to remove such voters as it needs to be proven they do not reside at the location. This is their excuse.

    But above all, the question that begs an answer is, how did such voters get registered in the first place? Voter registration is conducted by the EC, and an identity card is needed upon registration. All voter registration is entered into a computer database, thus it can be inferred that any manipulation of voter’s registration data happens within the database that is eventually printed out as the electoral roll.

    Further points of contention comes from the refusal of the EC to extend postal votes to those who qualify but do not fall into the category of police personnel or the military. In the recent Sarawak state election, this deprived the Sarawak diaspora who work in the peninsula or West Malaysia, their right to ballot. Voters who wanted to vote were forced to pay unnecessarily for airfare back to Sarawak in order to cast their votes.

    Making it harder for voters to vote

    As overseers of the election process, it is the responsibility of the EC to ensure that all citizens of Malaysia have the opportunity to cast their vote as granted by Article 114 of the Federal Constitution. The EC has instead chosen to make it even harder for Malaysians to cast their votes if they happen to reside away from the state of their origins.

    The EC’s non-supportive stance is further evidenced by its refusal to provide automatic registration for Malaysians who reach the age of 21. Why then would the EC not grant Malaysians this facility and ensure that all get the opportunity to vote? Only the EC can answer.

    In the wake of Bersih, the EC has shown itself as a toothless and clueless commission. Unwilling to stand up for the rights of everyday Malaysians and instead selling their souls to please their political masters - the BN goverment of the day.

    - Malaysia Chronicle
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  5. #5
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    Ambiga: EC can change if put under pressure

    Kuek Ser Kuang Keng
    Aug 8, 11
    11:09am
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    INTERVIEW Gaining more bargaining chips from the historic July 9 rally, Bersih 2.0 has been exerting pressure on the Election Commission (EC) to carry out electoral reforms.

    However, during the two debates with Bersih 2.0 chairperson Ambiga Sreenevasan (right in photo), embattled EC deputy chairperson Wan Ahmad Wan Omar (left in photo) had shown no commitment to initiate any significant reform to the much disputed electoral system, on the grounds that the commission has no legal power to do so.

    Disappointed with the EC, some Bersih 2.0 supporters suggested that the coalition shift its focus to the BN government, which controls the necessary majority in Parliament to amend laws, an important criterion for any meaningful reform.

    However, in a recent interview with Malaysiakini, Ambiga said she believes that the electoral reform movement must engage with the EC, and that the commission will change only under pressure from the people.

    “I still have hope. I still have hope that things can move,” she said firmly.

    The former Bar Council president reiterated that the federal constitution places election commissioner on the same position as a federal court judge, therefore leaving the EC out of the picture of electoral reform would be a mistake.

    “I think we probably have to do both (EC and ruling parties). The EC may feel they are powerless, we don't agree and sometimes it is a question of empowerment, and we have to keep persuading them that in fact, they have power more than they think they have.

    “They are the body, in my view, it is their responsibility. Shifting the focus away from them would be the wrong thing to do because you are sending the message that they are not responsible for the state of elections in this country and I disagree with that.

    “I think they are entirely responsible and there are many thing they can do and I think if they have to take a stand against the government, they have to do it because they are an independent body, they are the ones who should be doing it,” she said.

    'Think out of the box'

    Ambiga continued to urge the EC to “think out of the box”. “They really need to look at their powers and they really need to use them,” she added.

    She was of the view that the engagement with EC after the July 9 rally had produced some “baby steps” - the EC had promised a longer campaign period in the next general election and agreed to study the proposal to set up a bipartisan committee on electoral reform.

    “There are also some movements on the overseas voters,” she said, referring to the EC's announcement that assistant registrars will be appointed in all Malaysian missions abroad to facilitate overseas students to register as postal voters.

    On the issue of 'what's next', contrary to the view that Bersih 2.0 has been quiet and losing its momentum after the rally, Ambiga said the people has continued the movement through their own initiatives at a more grassroots and localised level.

    “We have seen the rakyat take ownership of Bersih, of what it stands for. I am very proud of the rakyat for doing that and it is very welcomed.”

    On the other hand, Bersih 2.0 has been busy continuing its advocacy work out of the limelight, said Ambiga, who received continual invitations nationwide to talk about electoral reform.

    Although the rally did not directly translate into electoral reform, she observed that election has become one of the hot issues in the town, in which people are not only talking about elections but the desire to register and vote has increased significantly.

    Asked about the lukewarm response of the public towards the Yellow Weekend campaign which calls on supporters to wear something yellow every Saturday, she did seem perturbed.

    “It doesn't matter, yellow is still seen as the Bersih 2.0 colour. When there are occasions, people do wear yellow and that's how we keep the issue alive,” said a smiling Ambiga.
    py

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