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Thread: Latest incursion by Israel into Gaza

   
   
       
  1. #31

    Re: Latest incursion by Israel into Gaza

    The Conspiracy Theory is just a mental model. Use it if it suits you and the facts fit. Otherwise, ignore it.
    Conspiration Theory is a term typically used for cases when 'facts' are selected to fit the theory and not the other way around. Furthermore, they tend to involve some clandestine or semi-clandestine high level plot, with excessive stereotyping and simplication, may it be the 'West', the Freemasons, the 'Elders of Sion', The Jews, the Illuminati, or various assortments of world leaders.

    Any theory is a mental model.

  2. #32

    Re: Latest incursion by Israel into Gaza

    Our every day living is based on concept,that we are human and have choice.The non-conceptual truth is often spoken and few understood.It is Insyaallah.Thy will be done,period.All concepts are the sAME[All are false]Only when one surrender[Islam] to the truth ,can there be real peace.A peace which is at peace with both peace and war[Fully acknowledging nothing good or bad can result without the Will of God and Accepting it unreservedly]The people must return to religions,all else are futile.Conspiracy,like secularisn and democracy are mere concepts.Concepts on itself cannot harm,only the believe in them that are the problem.

  3. #33

    Re: Latest incursion by Israel into Gaza

    Gaza Crisis : Challenging Some Stereotypes
    originally posted in bobjots : redux

    A friend of mine who has been posting some resources on peacemaking and reconciliation vis-a-vis the recent crisis that is occuring in the Gaza strip has been receiving some critical e-mails from fellow Christians about what they perceive as his blind support for the Palestinean cause.

    In a sense, it is fortunate that my friend is not very familiar with the history and politics of the crisis. To him, he sees children being killed on both sides of the fence and that is enough for him to urge action.

    Some of the e-mails go to the extent of taking positions like:

    .. don’t push for a cease fire, lest we hinder God’s plan for Israel and the world. Christians should support and pray for Israel. The Bible says those who bless Israel shall be blessed, and those who curse Israel shall be cursed. Pushing for a cease fire would mean letting the enemies to regain their power sooner and planning for eradicating God’s chosen people ..
    I wonder, how different is a position like the above different from this one below (from the opposing side of the conflict):

    The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah (children of God), there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.

    - Article 7, Hamas Covenant
    Here’s something that perhaps those of us who are still looking at this from politically nuanced lens (esp. if one feels that Hamas is a big part of the problem) to think about:

    If we don’t step in and provide what the Palestinians need, Hamas will; in fact, they already do. They operate medical clinics, schools, soup kitchens, and other necessary social services. They are entrenched in every sphere of Palestinian society, social, economic and religious. They are vicious, barbaric murderers who call for the destruction of Israel and her people…and they operate what is essentially the only effective social safety net in Palestine.

    Why? Because no one else does. Egypt, Jordan, and other nearby Arab states, all dealing with their own problems, would like nothing better than to forget about the Palestinians altogether, and they certainly aren’t going to provide for the Palestinians when they can barely (if at all) provide for their own people. The obscenely wealthy Gulf regimes do little to solve the problems, although they certainly have enough money to do so if they truly wished. The UN has proved useless, for all its anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian blather.

    The “official” government of the Palestinian Authority is basically a kleptocracy, about as corrupt as such an organization can be, and is wholly unable to provide any kind of social services for the people it ostensibly governs. The people trust neither them nor the UN. and they most definitely don’t trust Israel, the US, or the West in general.

    Hamas stepped into that breach long ago. They aren’t just evil Jew-hating killers; they’re evil Jew-hating killers who run schools and hospitals for people who have been essentially abandoned by the rest of the world, even by their fellow Arabs, whose outrage and righteous indignation about the situation has never quite been caught up to by action (you can ask the Lebanese about how effective the Arab League is). Stopping terrorism in Palestine isn’t just a matter of wiping out Hamas; poverty, disease, ignorance, and desperation must also be wiped out. Israel is apparently not going to do it, and the Palestinians are unable at the moment to do it for themselves.


    If we really want the killing to stop and a sustainable peace attained, the blind support of Israel or Palestine will not bring this objective anywhere nearer to fruition.

    Another friend who is an advocate of the “rottweiler” conspiracy theory I implied in an earlier post of mine mentioned after reading the post that the conspiracy theory is just a mental model and one should use it if it suits them and claims that the facts fit. I feel that in many such cases, the facts that fit tend to be selectively chosen to advance one’s preferred narrative.

    What perhaps is needed is a total shift in one’s mental perspectives, instead of embracing the existing and prevalent mental models (on both sides of the fence). Perhaps then we can really see a way forward.

  4. #34

    Re: Latest incursion by Israel into Gaza

    I’ve seen many statements on the current Gaza crisis. While I feel that a lot of them bring up points I can personally agree with, it is perhaps this statement by Musalaha (see also the Wikipedia entry as their website is being redeveloped), a non-profit organisation that works towards reconciliation between Israelis and Palestinians, that I feel closely mirrors my own perspectives and viewpoints:

    Musalaha Update: Conflict in Gaza

    To both Israelis and Palestinians, the current conflict in Gaza has brought nothing but pain and suffering. It has also caused friction among some believers as they choose to pledge sole allegiance to their own people group. Some are even expressing an unabashed hatred for the other side through articles, e-mails and graphic content on Facebook.

    From the Israeli point of view they pulled out of the Gaza Strip in the name of peace and an Islamic regime took over. Israel’s justification for going to war was to protect its citizens against Hamas launching rockets on the communities in the Negev. Soldiers continue to mobilize along the Gaza border as they prepare to defend their people and country against terror. They claim that others would have acted more quickly and aggressively. Their reasoning is that it is necessary to attack now before Hamas has longer-range missiles.

    The Palestinians claim that though Israel left the Gaza Strip in 2006, the army is still controlling the borders making it the biggest open-air prison in the world. In the last 18-months, 1.5 million Palestinians have been under siege and were prevented from receiving sufficient water, medical aid and food supply. For the Palestinians, Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza was just an excuse to expand their control in the West Bank and build further settlements. The Palestinians also believe they have a right to self-defense. For them, the Israeli reaction is disproportionate. The number of Israelis killed cannot be compared to the hundreds of Palestinians killed.

    Each player in the conflict places the full responsibility of the cycle of violence on the other side. There is a general unwillingness to enter into peace talks on ideological or political grounds. For example, Israel will say Hamas is an ideological religious organization that doesn’t recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Palestinians, on the other hand, say the Palestinian Authority has entered into concessions and nothing substantial has evolved; all that increased were settlements and checkpoints.

    So, what is our role as believers in this situation? How can we be a model of Messiah as we move forward in the reconciliation process? Are we too busy challenging the moral and ethical position of the other side that we are unwilling to take responsibility? (emphasis mine) Because our societies have chosen war and violence, there is a great need for reconciliation. We can accomplish this through taking on a priestly role of intercessor and prophetic role of speaking the truth.

    While the conflict has divided some believers, there are those taking a stand and fulfilling their priestly role. I was greatly encouraged last week to hear a Messianic pastor lead his congregation in a prayer of repentance, especially emphasizing that in a time of war, repentance is necessary from both the Israelis and the Palestinians. We must begin by examining our own sins, failures and shortcomings and seek God’s forgiveness and direction.

    Applying Joel 2, he read, “Return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning. Rend your heart and not your garments. Return to the Lord your God for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love, and he relents from sending calamity” (Joel 2:12-13). God desires us to grieve from within and turn our hearts back towards him. As we as believers intercede on behalf of the people in our societies we need to invoke the nature of God and beg for his mercy and compassion to fall upon us because we have sinned before him. We must also cry out for God’s mercy and compassion to fall upon the other side.

    In time of war we are also called to take on a prophetic role. The prophet was a representative of God who brought a message primarily to effect social change. The prophet spoke the truth and reminded us to care for the widow, orphan and stranger. When speaking the prophetic word, we need to be blunt without any hidden messages, and we need to have the courage to speak out when our people are wrong. In the prophetic role we are reminded that we must not only speak out against the injustice which has been committed against our own people, but also against others. We have a duty to speak out against the misuse of power and the blood of the innocent shed whether it is Israeli or Palestinian.

    The world views war as war. Some will say, “in war the innocent also die and we cannot help it.” My son was greatly distressed when his friend told him exactly this. I shared with him that in war we need to speak up for the innocent. We cannot justify the act of killing innocent people and say it was in self-defense. Yet, we cannot justify killing someone with a weapon just because they’re holding a weapon. Even killing in war for self-defense should be taken with caution and reverence. The enemy carrying the weapon is also a person who has also been created in the image of God. Especially in a time of war we need to speak louder and clearer against the misuse of power by our governments and their justification of power and violence. War doesn’t mean giving a free hand without any moral and ethical boundaries and limitations.

    So, while we are in the midst of war, we need to honestly seek the will of God and be discerning. We must become intercessors for our nation, our leaders and the other side and ask God to pour out his mercy and compassion. We must also become the prophet and convey that message of injustice happening in our societies. We need to attempt to relieve the pain of the innocent even if we feel our side’s reasoning for war is justified. Instead of pointing the finger, let us look within ourselves and repent. Then let us look at the other side with compassion and love, with a love that transcends societal boundaries, rocket fire and airstrikes.

    Salim J. Munayer, Ph.D.
    Director of Musalaha

    Tel: 02-6720376
    Fax: 02-6719616

    musalaha@netvision.net.il

  5. #35
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    Re: Latest incursion by Israel into Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob K
    Another friend who is an advocate of the “rottweiler” conspiracy theory I implied in an earlier post of mine mentioned after reading the post that the conspiracy theory is just a mental model and one should use it if it suits them and claims that the facts fit. I feel that in many such cases, the facts that fit tend to be selectively chosen to advance one’s preferred narrative.
    Bob, my Conspiracy Theory sees the Gaza incursion as a diversion from the bigger war being waged in the financial markets. The Conspirators. in their greed to make money, has been caught out in the financial derivatives mess. Now they are getting the US govt to bail them out.

    That exposes the USD to massive devaluation. This will be reflected in the price of gold. So another war is ongoing to suppress the price of gold. This is fought in the COMEX. The Conspirators need a diversion to take the Rats' attention from it. If it cannot be resolved to the US satisfaction, they will resort to the ultimate step, which is war! And the current one in Gaza will come in convenient. Their real target will then be Iran, followed by Russia & China.

    So continue moralising. It is all about Greed and some dumb Rats get caught up with this debate over religion.
    py

  6. #36
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    Re: Latest incursion by Israel into Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by pywong
    So continue moralising. It is all about Greed and some dumb Rats get caught up with this debate over religion.
    Religion is the opium of the masses.
    It allows people to fly by giving them the wings of faith.
    Distract people from solving their real problems by offering them the pleasure of living in an unreal world, in a mirage.
    It is notorious how many people were killed in the name of religion.
    A drug that destroys if taken in large quantities.

  7. #37

    Re: Latest incursion by Israel into Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by racheljansz
    Quote Originally Posted by pywong
    So continue moralising. It is all about Greed and some dumb Rats get caught up with this debate over religion.
    Religion is the opium of the masses.
    It allows people to fly by giving them the wings of faith.
    Distract people from solving their real problems by offering them the pleasure of living in an unreal world, in a mirage.
    It is notorious how many people were killed in the name of religion.
    A drug that destroys if taken in large quantities.
    I don't disagree. That's why many religious folks get upset when you question their commitment to the present reality, even if its based on the principles of their own faith.

  8. #38
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    Ioannis Gatsiounis: Balance the Gaza coverage

    Balance the Gaza coverage — Ioannis Gatsiounis

    Jan 19 — The fundamental task of territorial officials is to conduct their affairs in a way that will protect and empower their people. On this count Hamas has dreadfully failed if not betrayed the Palestinians, and its unilateral one-week cease fire, announced Sunday, does not change matters.

    By firing rockets at Israeli civilians — more than 10,000 since 2001 — Hamas has brazenly provoked a more powerful bitter enemy. To “fight”, Hamas has retreated into residential areas, donned civilian clothes, stashed weapons beneath hospitals and mosques, and booby-trapped schools and apartment buildings.

    On Saturday, after Israel announced its own unilateral cease-fire, a Hamas spokesperson said the militant group would carry on, “regardless of the price that it costs”.

    ..........http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/i...nis-gatsiounis
    py

  9. #39
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    The Gaza carnage and the undoing of the Zionist state

    The Gaza carnage and the undoing of the Zionist state

    Posted by admin
    Tuesday, 20 January 2009 08:34

    The arch-imperialist, Winston Churchill, in making his rallying call to the US to take part in World War II concluded his speech to the US Congress with the following poem:

    If we must die, let it not be like hogs
    Hunted and penned in an inglorious spot,
    While round us bark the mad and hungry dogs,
    Making their mock at our accursed lot.
    If we must die, O let us nobly die,
    So that our precious blood may not be shed
    In vain; then even the monsters we defy
    Shall be constrained to honor us though dead!
    O, kinsmen! we must meet the common foe!
    Though far outnumbered let us show us brave,
    And for their thousand blows deal one death-blow!
    What though before us lies the open grave?
    Like men we'll face the murderous, cowardly pack,
    Pressed to the wall, dying, but fighting back!


    http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/17072/84/
    py

  10. #40
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    THE PALESTINIAN TRAGEDY: ONE CHRISTIAN’S RESPONSE

    January 19, 2009
    THE PALESTINIAN TRAGEDY: ONE CHRISTIAN’S RESPONSE

    Posted by ongohing under Perspective

    I am a Christian. As such my response is one Christian’s response to the Palestinian tragedy. I speak for myself. I have asked no one or group permission to speak. I represent no one or group but myself.

    http://ongohing.wordpress.com/2009/0...%99s-response/
    py

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